You’ve felt it, even though you probably couldn’t put it into words. It’s that secret glee when a driver cuts you off in traffic and then gets pulled over down the road. It’s the smug satisfaction that karma is in control when an arrogant coworker doesn’t get the promotion they were sure of. The German word for it is Schadenfreude, and it’s just one of the emotions we’re discussing in today’s show.
Dr. Tiffany Watt Smith is a cultural historian and author of The Book of Human Emotions: From Ambiguphobia to Umpty — 154 Words from Around the World for How We Feel, in which she investigates the hidden cultural forces which shape our feelings. In 2014, she was named a BBC New Generation Thinker, and she is currently a Wellcome Trust research fellow at the Centre for the History of the Emotions at Queen Mary University of London. Her latest book, Schadenfreude: The Joy of Another’s Misfortune, explores the deliciously dark and complex joy we’ve all felt from time to time at the news of others’ misfortunes. In this episode, Tiffany shares why Schadenfreude is not a bad emotion, and how, in fact, it might give us the boldness we need to push ourselves forward. We also discuss how to make peace, manage, and make the most of your Schadenfreude, and why what may seem like a negative emotion might be a conflicted kind of love and desire to belong.
Geeking out at the library
Tiffany has always been drawn to history, research, talking to people, and writing. Interestingly, she ended up as a theater director, a profession very much entwined with human emotions, because anyone in theater work is keenly interested in the emotions of the audience. As Tiffany realized she just wasn’t enjoying her theater work, which happened to be the “family business,” she was even more impressed to figure out how and why people are moved by emotions. As she struggled, she became despondent and felt like a terrible failure. It was at this time that she decided to take a break and do something different. Her “break” ended up being getting a Ph.D., which included getting a job around research. With her research job at the university, she found all the validation she was seeking. The journey was all about finding a better fit for her passion and her personality.
Redefining emotions
Tiffany has spent her career identifying the basic human emotions and how they change, based on history and culture. We are taught to think of emotions as biological reflexes, or things that happen in the brain. Researchers have started to challenge this model of emotions and think of emotions as dynamic, malleable, complex arrangements of bodily reflexes, thoughts, and values.
Emotional intelligence
Our emotions are influenced by physical and cognitive responses. They are much more than simple reactions to triggers in the outside world. Think about the circuit that happens in our bodies and brains to process bodily sensations, ideas, and thoughts. Emotional intelligence is a skill not well developed in society today. It can be very valuable to learn to use a wide range of words to describe our emotions. The skill is like learning a new system of identification.
Naming emotions
Think about the words we use to categorize and describe our emotions. We learn to match words with our emotional experiences. Being able to give our feelings a “name” takes away some of the potential overwhelm. For instance, think of the German word Schadenfreude, which is made of two words that are translated “damage” and “joy.” It refers to the pleasure we feel at other people’s misfortunes. For a long time, people contended that there isn’t an English equivalent because we “don’t feel that emotion.” Of course, we know that people all over the world feel this emotion in some way, even though there is shame and awkwardness around it. Tiffany was immediately drawn to this emotion, thus her second book about it.
Why Schadenfreude is not the opposite of empathy
The mistaken idea by most psychotherapists is that Schadenfreude is the polar opposite of empathy, but Tiffany contends that that is not true, for several reasons. The absence of empathy would lead us to an extreme and dark place with this troubling and frightening emotion. Other reasons are that you need to have some degree of empathy to appreciate Schadenfreude, as it contains a sort of vulnerability. There is not a clear dividing line between an “either/or” existence for empathy and Schadenfreude. We can feel both emotions at the same time.
How Schadenfreude intersects with other emotions
Schadenfreude is prevalent when we feel a sense of justice in that a sort of karma is at work when others’ suffering is deserved in some way. Sometimes Schadenfreude comes with envy over someone else’s success. Power is an element of Schadenfreude, as we want to see “the mighty fall.” Schadenfreude has been called “the revenge of the impotent.” Tiffany shares some real-life examples to which we all can relate.
Dangers of Schadenfreude
Schadenfreude seeps out often in moments of competitiveness, in the voting booth as we see someone brought down, and in most work environments. This emotion can become destructive and can be a risk. It can become divisive as we form ourselves into rival groups or camps, which we are very familiar with in the world of politics. It’s essential that we understand how our Schadenfreude works and how we can put limits on it.
Highlights of this episode:
- 3:53 – At a crossroads
- 7:57 – A pivot that worked
- 9:05 – Identifying the most basic emotions
- 12:46 – How emotions are influenced by physical and cognitive responses
- 14:14 – Are we dumber now about emotions?
- 18:35 – Processing emotions
- 21:11 – Tiffany’s new book
- 25:15 – Why Schadenfreude is not the opposite of empathy
- 31:22 – How Schadenfreude intersects with justice
- 36:51 – Why it’s impossible to not experience Schadenfreude
- 41:15 – How this emotion points out interesting things to us
- 44:27 – Schadenfreude in the voting booth and the workplace
- 50:13 – Fem Five
Resources Mentioned:
- Find Tiffany on Twitter: @drtiffanywattsmith
- The Book of Human Emotions: From Ambiguphobia to Umpty — 154 Words from Around the World for How We Feel
by Tiffany Watt Smith
- Schadenfreude: The Joy of Another’s Misfortune by Tiffany Watt Smith
- Dept. of Speculation by Jenny Offill
- Drop the Ball: Achieving More By Doing Less by TIffany Dufu
The Fem Five:
1. Favorite book to recommend for women?
- Dept. of Speculation by Jenny Offill
2. Favorite self-care hack?
- ”Walking the dog and gardening”
3. Best piece of advice and who gave it to you?
- “My father said it’s much more important to enjoy the process of what you’re doing, rather than the outcome.”
4. Female CEO or thought leader you’re into right now?
- Tiffany Dufu, author of Drop the Ball: Achieving More By Doing Less
5. One piece of advice you’d give your five years younger self?
- “Don’t worry. Get better at planning and prioritizing. Learn how to plan and budget your time better.”
Last Time on The NextFem Podcast
Leave Your Job to Venture with Impact – with Ann Davis
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